Sam Spade's San Francisco

I'm Mormon. This isn't about hate or bigotry. It's about what we believe (that marriage is between a man and a woman). The problem I have is that somehow beliefs are protected under freedom of speech, but we're supposed to keep our mouths shut? I don't understand. I have ZERO, let me repeat, ZERO feelings of hate toward anyone of the sort. My brother is gay. I love my brother beyond belief. on the contrary, I have felt extreme hate, vitriol, meanness and bigotry from those opposing Proposition 8.

Dear Mormom: Insofar as you say you do not understand, it is my pleasure to give you your answer. Your beliefs are sacred to you and to all under the law of this land. You can believe anything you want. Your right to those beliefs is protected under the United States Constitution. So, congratulations, friend, your beliefs are safe.
.
Your church, however, wants to take our rights from us. Because our existence is a source of irritation to your church, your Utah-based church chose to donate $18-million to take-away the civil rights of people in California. You have denied us the right to express our love. You have made us second-class citizens. You have degraded, insulted and humiliated us through your clear and obvious hatred for our very existence.
.
You asked if you should keep your mouth shut about your beliefs. No. You are free to shout your beliefs from the rooftops, but do not pay money to steal away our civil rights.
.
Do not take our basic, civil and human rights. Do not deny us the right to show our love. Do not deny us the right to live in the same freedom you enjoy as an American citizen. That is crossing the line. You and your church are blind to see what you are doing.
.
You are not just protecting your rights. You are denying the rights of other Americans. Your church is no different in result than the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Brotherhood or any other hate group.
.
If you love your brother beyond belief, as you say you do, then why are you involved with a hate group like the Mormons - and make no mistake - they ARE a hate group. Why are you a member of an organization dedictated to making your brother a second-class citizen. You hypocrite!
.
My suggestion to you is to go to your brother, fall on your knees, and apologize for your blindness and stupidity.
.
Then, when you get up off your knees, open your eyes and see what is really going on around you.
.
Thank you for your comment. You had guts to leave that comment and you seem to be an honest and fair person. I do not intend to insult you or degrade you in any manner and I wish you the very best.
.
This is not the end of this issue for us. We have already filed multiple law suits in court and we have very good reason to believe the California Supreme Court will again rule in our favor.
.
It may be necessary for us to begin a move to revise the initiative process in California to prevent future attempts to manipulate California elections.
.
It may not be obvious to many yet, but this nation has just turned a corner. The idea that one group of people has the power and ability to control the lives of another group of people solely because they dislike those people is bigotry. It is hatred. It is homophobia. It is unjust. It is wrong. Don't you get it?
.
There is a new day in America and it is dawning on a new freedom and a new liberty. It is a deeper and more whole meaning of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
.
We can be married. Oh, yes we can! Regardless of how your church tries to extend its arrogant control over this country - they will fail. They will fail because Americans are better than that
.
Yes we can. Yes we can. Yes we can!

'Mormon Anonymous', I cant believe you would say out one side of your mouth that you love your brother while out the other side of your mouth and with your actions you would say you hated him, that he was lower than you, and that you would strip him of his rights to love another human being just because it makes you uncomfortable to look at. When the mormon church was first created they were persecuted and driven away because of thier beliefs and thier marriage practices. You would think that of all religions You would understand what it was like to want to live your life the way you want and marry whom you want. Instead you have become selfish and uncaring. How can you say your God loves you for this?

You say: "You are free to shout your beliefs from the rooftops, but do not pay money to steal away our civil rights." In other words, Mormons can talk quietly among themselves about their beliefs, but they are not allowed to express them in a way that might influence others. So your "civil right" to marry someone of the same gender (which you will not find written in any constitution) cancels out Mormons' civil right to participate in the political process (which you will find prominently featured in the First Amendment).

You say: "why are you involved with a hate group like the Mormons - and make no mistake - they ARE a hate group." You digest the crap churned out by the pro-homosexual propaganda machine and presume to condemn religious beliefs about which you know nothing. The belief that marriage should always remain as it always has been, the union between a man, a woman and their children, is a belief shared by many religions (and, as it turns out, by a majority of Californians). That belief has nothing to do with hatred toward you or anyone else.

You say: "Do not deny us the right to show our love." That's crap. Y'all can "show your love" just like you always have. You don't need a marriage certificate to do that. This has never been about "showing your love." Only a small percentage of same-sex couples have opted to marry in the places where it is already legal. This is really about getting an official government seal of approval of your sexual behavior.

You say: "It may be necessary for us to begin a move to revise the initiative process in California to prevent future attempts to manipulate California elections." So since terrorizing Mormons in order to intimidate them from exercising their First Amendment rights didn't have the intended effect, you think it would be a good idea to change the law in order to exclude them from the initiative process. Yet you find it outrageous that Mormons would dare to take away YOUR civil rights. "You hypocrite!"

You say: "The idea that one group of people has the power and ability to control the lives of another group of people solely because they dislike those people is bigotry." You need a dictionary. A bigot is defined as one who treats others with hatred and intolerance because they are members of a particular group or because they hold an opposing opinion. That's you.

Maybe we should beat the Morman's at their own game. Every "single" gay should buddy up with their best friend and go door to door in a white shirt and tie and convert as many Mormans to homosexuality as they can.

Maybe we're looking at this all wrong...Maybe we should have the Supreme Court weigh the option of removing all legal benefits of marriage, since marriage is a religious ceremony and not a civil one, how can the government bestow rights on married people that single people do not have? I am single and I demand the same equal rights as a married person. And further more, lets have them weigh the legality of a religious order donating to political causes? Isn't that representation without taxation? If they've got money to influence elections....maybe they should pay taxes?

My two mommies can beat up your five wives.

How is it that a religious order that has for generations practiced polygamy and pedophelia is allowed to set the moral standards for marriage? O yeah, MONEY!!! Tax free dollars spent doing "God's work". Wealth, power, greed, corruption, oppression.....God should be so proud of his Mormon sons & daughters.

Since the passage of Proposition 8, will they now be instructing elementary school children in California from the book of Mormon? I think it's about time that these young girls learn their place in society as the third wife of a 65 year old man at the tender age of sixteen.

Forget all this legal wrangling...could we all just pray to God to settle this issue? I think it's time we heard from HIM! Gays vs. Mormons, whose side is HE on? Everyone go to bed tonight and pray to the LORD to give a us a resolute answer. "Please dear Lord, strike dead those who most pervert & distort your word and use it again an again to bring harm upon his brother." Amen We could all use those available parking spaces left behind from the Mormons demise.

The Mormons had it right, the key to winning this issue is language, we need to drop the GAY label and refer to our constituents as "Consenting Adults" We don't need "gay marriage" to win, but the right of two "consenting adults" to win. That takes their fear tactics away...they always focus on negative sexual imagery to persuade the masses that our lot is a deviant one. They depend upon our differences to alienate us. Let's focus on language that illustrates a common thread when drawing up initiatives and legal challenges.

wow. It looks like pretty much everybody here is spouting off misinformation. Everybody here needs to read up on both sides, have an open mind and try to understand. The homos didn't lose any rights that they didnt already have. The Mormon church didn't put money toward this cause, the members did, because they are standing up for what they believe, just like you are. The people voted. That is democracy. The gays are spewing so many lies and so much deception. Get over it. What you do is considered sick and nauseating to many, but we respect your feelings, just don't trample and drag marriage into your perverted world. It is something sacred to us.

What would most people say when they see their pet male dog trying to hump all the other male dogs? "Something's not quite right with that thing", is what I'd say.

Even Barack Obama says marriage should be between a man and a woman. Take his advise and preserve the beauty of marriage as God intended it. It is sacred. Kids can only be made with one of each, there is a reason for this. You keep all your same rights, we preserve the sacredness of marriage. Thanks for understanding and respecting democracy. Democracy is not letting 4 gay judges decide for the state.

Go ahead, name one right you lost with the passing of prop 8.

"What you do is considered sick and nauseating to many, but we respect your feelings, just don't trample and drag marriage into your perverted world. It is something sacred to us."
So if someone is gay, marriage isnt sacred to them? I think the whole argument is based on the fact that marriage IS sacred to the gay community, and even the straight community. Everyone involved would say that marriage is a right that they would like to be granted.
While marriage between a man and a woman may be the way you see things, that's not necessarily how the rest of the world sees it too. There's nothing wrong with someone LEGALLY expressing their love for another person.
And while you respect the gay communities feelings for that, you cant respect that they have the rights to be equal? How does that work? Aren't you doing exactly what you just told the gay community not to do?

"What would most people say when they see their pet male dog trying to hump all the other male dogs? "Something's not quite right with that thing", is what I'd say."
What would most people say when they say someone who has all the rights trying to deny someone else the same rights? Isn't that defying equality? The same right that America has fought so hard for?
I'll tell you what I'd say when I see someone DENYING the same rights of someone else,
"Somethings not quite right there," is what I'd say.

"Go ahead, name one right you lost with the passing of prop 8."
THE RIGHT TO MARRY between a man and a man, and a woman and a woman. Before Prop 8 passed, the gay community HAD that right.
I would call that something lost.

"Even Barack Obama says marriage should be between a man and a woman."
He is allowed to express that. But to impose that on others? That's not right.
If someone said to him, he was black, he couldn't run for president, where would we be now? You wouldn't know that Obama was against gay marriage, unless he was a presidential candidate. But since he is black, he wouldn't be, because he was DENIED that right.
Does that sound fair to you?

No, nor should denying the right of marriage to someone else, who is a human being, and should be free to express their love to whomever that want.
ITS LOVE, for crying out loud.
Are we really so insecure with ourselves, and the "sanctity of marriage," that we have to put limits on THAT, too?

"Take his advise and preserve the beauty of marriage as God intended it."
Now we bring religion into it. The Bible was written by disciples of Jesus.
First off, that isn't God. It is the son of God, and I think you might agree that parents and children do not always see things eye to eye. I think God and Jesus would be pushing for acceptance than rejection.
Secondly, the disciples took Jesus' word, and interpreted it to the the way they saw fit. The Bible is entirely based on opinion of what Jesus told them. So no one can know for sure what God or Jesus actually wanted.
Even if God did say marriage is between a man and a woman, he also said 'You shall not commit adultery.'
Have you followed that rule?
"Thou shall not covet."
Or that one?
Humans aren't perfect, and holding them to those standards are irrational. So is saying one thing is okay for a certain group of people, but not the other group. For example, the straight people and the gay people of California.

"The gays are spewing so many lies and so much deception."
Ok, because the Morman commercials for Yes on Prop 8 weren't?
"They're going to turn my child GAY in school!"
"In kindergarten, they told my kid two men can get married!"

WOW, they were teaching acceptance. How dare they.
AND, as my own personal opinion, I don't believe the schools taught that, so to me, that seems like the Morman Church, or the Yes on 8 side was spreading a few too many lies themselves.

Look whose calling the kettle black.

"It looks like pretty much everybody here is spouting off misinformation."
Sounds like you are, again, being slightly hypocritical, my friend.

That was what I had to say, using my rights as an American citizen, and my freedom of speech. I think you should go take your own advice and research both sides of the argument before you post on forums like this, sounding quite ignorant.

um, excuse me, but each one of your arguments are so flawed. I don't know where to begin.

You currently have the exact same rights as me as a straight person. As a straight person, I also lost the right to marry a man. You can marry someone of the opposite sex just like I can. We are all humans and we all have the same rights as it is right now. I do not have the right to marry the same sex, nor does a gay man.

Where do we go next? Can a man marry a goat? How bout a gorilla? Marriage means something. Why do we need to change the definition?

Same sex marriage is taught in MA schools. Look it up. Gays and Lesbos sue churches that won't marry them. Look it up. Quit listening to your clueless liberal friends and do your own research.

It comes down to changing the definition of marriage. You have rights as a domestic partnership. The same rights you'd have if "married".

It is not discrimination, it is protecting marriage and the family.

Why do you think ONLY a man and a woman can produce off spring? Why do you think a woman has a vagina and the man a penis? Why do you think they compliment each other and fit together? Is the crap canal the proper place for a penis? That's just sick, wrong, and disgusting in most peoples' eyes.

Accept democracy. The people voted. Twice. Get over it. Don't beleive that we hate you. Don't beleive that we are discriminating. Beleive that marriage is sacred for us. Make up your own term.

I believe that just because it is your opinion you have no right no force that upon another.

If a gay couple married you need not be a part of that ceremony. people who disapprove have no right to stop them. Love is love.
marriage is sacred. It is a legal union between people who love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together. Gay marriage does no diminish the idea that marriage is sacred. Divorce, annulment, abusive relationships all take away from what should be a sacred and beautiful union. Gay marriage does not.
As for believing that sex between a man and a man is "gross" is a personal opinion. No one is asking you to partake or watch. That is a matter for that couple to decide. To counteract that train of thought, many if not most men find two women kissing or pleasuring each other to be a turn on. With this hypocrisy your statement holds no substantial thought at all.
Prop 8 was about acceptance. I am thoroughly disappointed in the lack of compassion that the California showed towards other people. If the country can move of from the discrimination felt during the 60's to voting a black president into office, I truly hope and believe that humanity will grow and mature enough to accept the differences within our society.

Your opinion is trying to change what already exists. You can't force your opinion on others. The people voted. Believe it if you want that this is about acceptance (maybe that is why you are all so hurt), but it is not. Have faith in humanity. We (most) do not despise you, we want marriage to remain as it is; between a man and a woman.

your opinion that same sex marriage does not degrade the sacredness of marriage is opposite my opinion. So what should we do? How bout we vote? Oh yeah, we did. Twice.

Is marrying a bike that I love marriage? Let's change the definition so that it is. How bout I marry a chimp? Let's change that too. Or a cute sheep. That could be marriage 'cause I really do love my cute little lamb.

marriage is marriage. Are there any other words you would like to change? Are there any other things you would like to force upon children and society?

The post immediately above was written by a very sad and mentally sick individual who seems to be confused about the nature of humanity and the defintition of human beings. The writer compares a relationship between two human beings with a relationship between a human and a sheep and a human and a chimpanzee.
.
Fortunately Americans do not think likewise. Nearly every human being on the planet, regardless of ethnicity or nationality, recognizes the rights of gay and lesbian Americans to be treated better than farm and zoo animals.
.
Every majort religion in America (including 100% of the Christian denominations) disagree with and oppose the diatribe this writer spews. His (or her) opinions are in an extreme minority and are considered to be repulsive by American society as a whole.
.
The writer of this comment is blinded by ignorant anger. The individual needs professional psychological counseling. He (or she) may, in point of fact, be a sociopath and a clear and present danger to society.
.
Let's all hope he (or she) does not live near vulnerable, innocent people in society.

I have noticed one interesting thing since the election. I haven't seen ANY mormon missionaries walking around the streets of San Francisco. Not even downtown. I wonder if their parents called them all back to Utah?

There are Mormon missionaries still working the streets of San Francisco. They are trying to stay out of the areas of the City where they might encounter large numbers of gay/lesbian/transgender folks. Lately, it is a common occurrence to see people confront them on the street. The Mormons are being cussed-out, shouted-at, insulted and lectured anywhere they are encountered.
.
To combat this response in San Francisco the Mormons have been sending their missionaries out into areas like the Sunset, upper Mission, Ingleside and Crocker-Amazon neighborhoods. They are more likely to run into straight people and semi-conservative people in those areas. Those neighborhoods also have high concentrations of immigrants and people who do not yet fully understand American society.
.
Recent immigrants to this country are the most vulnerable targets for the Mormons and they are focusing in those areas.
.
As for me, this is the quick canned sound-bite I repeat to Mormon missionaries whenever and wherever I encounter them. I say: "Your church wants to deny me of my rights as an American citizen. As a gay San Franciscan I would like to cordially invite you to drag your sloppy asses back to Utah." Try it yourself!

SSSF,
Hi buddy. Just for clarification, I never equated you to a farm animal. Reading comprehension problems? Read it again. You want to change a definition. I say, where does it stop? Is a farm animal too far? I know gay people. I love them as a fellow human being. A gay and a straight man have the exact same rights. I can't marry a man, neither can a gay man. I can marry a woman, so can a gay man. You have rights in your domestic partnership.

Don't force your opinion on us. CA voted. We voted twice. CA is one of the most liberal states and we voted against gay marriage. Are you guys getting the hint yet?

I have no anger. Really. None. The gays (in general) have anger. They feel hurt because they're misunderstanding the implications at stake here. Open your mind. Have tolerance for those w/dif views.

Your classic and common mentality that is reflective of the gay community is what's doing the damage. Think about it. Practice tolerance. Make up your own term for your gay civil union. America doesn't want marriage to mean a man and a man. Or a man and a rock. Or a man and a tree. It is between a man and a woman. That is how nature works. Nature is a beautifully complex and harmonious balance. Gayity (is that a word?) does not fit there. It can ONLY lead to the demise of humankind.

I will go seek my professional help now. Thanks for the advice.

Mormon missionaries are not all from Utah. There are 55-60,000 of them from all over the world. Listen to them and see if they preach hate or discrimination or intolerance. See if they hate gay people. Give them a chance as you'd like to have a chance to be heard. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I don't think they mind being persecuted. Jesus was persecuted. God is mocked. But notice the mormon's reciprocation, or more accurately, the lack thereof. They are just watching out for the family and society. Something they believe is vitally important. Two opposing views went head to head on the ballot. Don't cry about losing.

The gay community's angry, violent, destructive, intolerant, bigotted, and spiteful reaction to an opposing group or an opposing vote speaks volumes.

remember. All this is really about is a definition. That's it.

Love your neighbor - even if he disagrees with you.

Hello again,
I posted on Dec. 6th, and thought I'd check back to see what's happened since then.
This is what I have to say about this [again].

You said:
"...It is protecting marriage and the family."
If two straight people gets married, it doesn't mean they necessarily want kids. And there are alternatives to conventional reproduction, like adoption or artificial insemination. That does not mean that two people cant get married, nor does it mean that two gay people can't have kids.
So, let me see if I have this straight:
Marriage to you, as an individual, is between a man and a woman, to have kids, a family, etc, and thats it.

"remember. All this is really about is a definition. That's it."
Doesn't marriage mean: [This is what another Anonymous person said,]
"...A legal union between people who love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together."
What is wrong with that?
"I love you,"
"I love you too,"
"Lets get married!"
Why should straight people only be allowed that right?
You said:
"It is not discrimination,"

That IS discrimination.
Just because someone is gay, they can't get married counts as discriminating.

You started saying stuff about marrying bikes and stuff, and gee, I'm sure the Gay community would be flattered that you thought that little of them. Marriage between gay people is like marrying an intimate object? No, no, you're too kind.
And no, a goat or a sheep doesn't fall under that. I'm pretty sure its a law that you CANT marry animals.

"Love your neighbor - even if he disagrees with you."
I will say this to you one more time:
Take your own advice. To me, it sounds like you are pretty angry towards the Gay community.
"The gay community's angry, violent, destructive, intolerant, bigoted, and spiteful reaction to an opposing group or an opposing vote speaks volumes."
They have only had peaceful protests. They are upset that they are being treated less than the rest of the Californians. Wouldn't you be?

"Open your mind. Have tolerance for those w/dif views."
Again, take your own advice... If you are going to tell me you have tolerance, stop yourself. You yourself have said:
"Gayity (is that a word?) does not fit there. It can ONLY lead to the demise of humankind. "
How is that spreading tolerance or acceptance?
And no, gayity is NOT a word.

Here's a story for you, since you're oh so informed:
click here.

It is about a Mormon man, who was outed as gay, and he is speaking on the side of the gays, saying that the Mormon Church is fighting a losing battle.

And you say the Gay community is violent? Read on:
"Two people were arrested after a confrontation between the crowd and an occupant of a pickup truck that had a banner supporting Proposition 8. One demonstrator ended up with a bloody nose in the fracas. Seven arrests occurred during Los Angeles-area street marches late Wednesday."

Thats from the story I linked you. The violence showed up only when a "Yes on Prop 8" truck showed up.

All this is really about is acceptance.
WHY cant you accept that gay people are people too, and they should have the same rights as you get? They're not any less that you, and just because they're now labeled "married" doesn't affect you in ANY WAY.
Except that you have the knowledge that they are in fact, married. We can call it "union" if you want, then it wouldn't seem so "scandalous" to you. That's all marriage is. A UNION of two people, that love each other.
Do gay people have any less rights to LOVE than you do? No, you keep saying: "some" people don't approve of being gay. I suspect you are one of those people, personally, but that isn't the point. Sure, I might disapprove of praying 5 times a day, but am I going to stop anyone who wants to do that? NO.
And if you wish to get specific and touchy, California DID vote yes on gay marriage. it WAS legal. It was only after this proposition that "we" voted no.

I think it is only because so many people were involved in the issue. If this was a proposition asking to "redistrict" California, not as many people would have voted.

So feel free to refute anything I've said, continue making comparisons of marriage to your car, or whatever else you think up, but this isn't changing the definition of marriage. This isn't impacting you whatsoever, besides that you'll know California is ACCEPTING Gay people, and letting them have the same fundamental rights as straight people.
Its "separate but equal" all over again.
How well did that work out? Oh, well, hmm, it DIDN'T.

[And thanks, SSSF, you're not the only one that noticed.]

The post directly above is so fundamentally flawed in its logic.

To avoid going into all the misguided thought processes, let's just answer the question below:

When did CA vote for gay marriage?

The post immediately above directs us all to answer a question. Presumably that will lead into yet another diatribe of anti-gay hate rhetoric. Nobody seems to be interested in playing the little game that Anonymous wants us to play.

Listen, Anonynous: Why don't you go find somewhere else to spew your putrid venom? There must be some right-wing semi-Nazi Bible-banger websites that would enjoy hearing from sonmeone like you.

The rest of us find you to be intellectually challenged and boring beyond belief.

All right, I will make a correction to my former post:
"California DID vote yes on gay marriage. it WAS legal. It was only after this proposition that "we" voted no."
California didn't VOTE for gay marriage.

It was passed, but not but the voters. I believe it was Schwarzenegger who made it LEGAL in California.

I apologize for saying the wrong word, vote instead of legal.

Anyway, when that passed, California was estatic.
Some *****es from Utah had to come stick their nose in our businesses.


Thats all I had to say.
Sorry I was wrong.


And yes, I agree with the post directly above.
We're kinda sick of you.

(another opinion)

I feel like it is wrong for you to say that Mormons are part of a "Hate group". I've been a member all of my life, and have never "hated" anyone. I am not perfect, nor is any person that I know, however I feel that I personally as a member of this church am trying to stand up for what I believe in, and that is what is Natural. So don't tell me what I "am" as a mormon. Unless you are one, you don't know what I believe do you, just the same as I don't presume to know what you believe.

Put all religion aside, and marriage between the same sex is not natural! I don't believe that you should make a law to marry based on sexual preference. If I had a sexual preference to have sex with an ape (and I am not comparing an ape to human, just the idea of sexual preference) do you believe that we should all change the constitution because that small group of people wants to have sex with apes, and have it recognized by the rest of the country? NO! Last I checked, this is still a democracy and things are decided based on Majority Votes. Guess what, when you all become the majority of the country and want to change the law to recognize same-sex marriage than that is your right. However, it seems that lots of people in California, non-mormons included cast their votes, and your small minory lost the vote count. Better luck next time.

I also will add that to clarify all of the common misconseptions about mormons, the true original name of the original church is, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Yes, we are Christians, and hold Jesus Christ as the Savior of the World, we also read and study the bible as do many Christian denominations around the world, we do not have multiple wives as the break-off church FLDS does, we don't worship Joseph Smith, we teach of love, service, character, being kind, and of gospel principles such as marriage, baptism, God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, Faith, Repentance... When you come down to it we have probably many more similarities than differences of other Christian Denominations.

my final point is that I don't hate gay people, in fact I've had lots of Gay friends that I've worked with, and had as personal friends through my years back in High School. I respect them, as much as any other person around me, however, it is my opinion that it is un-natural for same sex marriage, and thereby feel it wrong to recognize it lawful. However, you are wrong when you say we have taken away your rights as citizens. Listen carefully.. YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO GO DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE ANYWHERE AND GET MARRIED, THE SAME RIGHT THAT I DO, YOU CAN DO IT TOMORROW IF YOU WISH, IN ANY STATE IN THE UNION. BUT JUST LIKE I MUST BRING A PERSON OF THE OPPOSITE SEX ALONG IN ORDER FOR THE MARRIAGE TO BE RECOGNIZED, YOU MUST DO THE SAME. BUT YOU DO INFACT HOLD THE SAME RIGHT TO GET MARRIED THAT I DO.

ps- again mormon's aren't haters they just are willing to stand up for something they beleive in, and in spite of their opposition in what seems to be originating in hate, the majority of memebers would take off their own shirt and give it to you as their neighbor. I hope you would do the same.