About the photo: Wasilla Bible Church, Alaska
David Brickner, the executive director of Jews for Jesus, suggested in his Aug. 17 sermon at Wasilla Bible Church that the refusal to accept Jesus was responsible for the long history of devastation visited upon Jerusalem. He also described his group's successful targeting of Israeli Jews, both in Israel and elsewhere.
“Judgment is very real, and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television,” said Brickner, according to a transcript posted on the church's Web site. “It’s very real. When [my son] Isaac was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment -- some of that conflict -- when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment -- you can’t miss it.”
A spokesman for the McCain campaign, Michael Goldfarb, said Palin did not know Brickner would be speaking that day and did not share his views.
David Brickner, the executive director of Jews for Jesus, suggested in his Aug. 17 sermon at Wasilla Bible Church that the refusal to accept Jesus was responsible for the long history of devastation visited upon Jerusalem. He also described his group's successful targeting of Israeli Jews, both in Israel and elsewhere.
“Judgment is very real, and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television,” said Brickner, according to a transcript posted on the church's Web site. “It’s very real. When [my son] Isaac was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment -- some of that conflict -- when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment -- you can’t miss it.”
A spokesman for the McCain campaign, Michael Goldfarb, said Palin did not know Brickner would be speaking that day and did not share his views.
That seems to be the common excuse when politicians try to distance themselves from the churches to which they belong. The question becomes: Why do they belong to hateful, aggressive, antagonistic churches like that in the first place? What does that say about their judgment? What does it say about their belief system?
Sarah Palin is dangerous. She is not the kind of American I want to be a heartbeat away from the presidency of my country - partciluarly when the president would be 71 years old upon taking office!
Her choice of places for religious worship is scarry. The Wasilla Bible Church believes in the centrality of Christ. Everyone else, in their opinion, is misguided, sinful and blind to truth. The fact that they speak in tongues (personal utterances that neither they nor anybody else understands) does not bother me as much as the nonsense in which they believe.
If Sarah Palin thinks likewise, the United States of America may be on the brink of its demise. Palin's church believes the end of the world is near and that Jesus will return to claim his own and rule the world, blah, blah, blah. Alaska will be a "refuge" state where people will flock when the rest of the nation falls. The United States, so the story goes, will be destroyed.
If she believes that America is doomed and if her church's invited guests preach that violence against Israelis results from God's judgment against Jews who have failed to embrace Jesus - if Sarah Palin believes that story - then it is the duty of every American to keep her out of the White House and as far away from Washington, DC as possible.
What would she do to defend and protect Israel against Iran? Would a President Sarah Palin stand with the Jewish state? Would she take steps to change the course of history and defend Israel or would she believe the line of crazy end-time home-spun Christian theology that America and Israel are doomed and that the "return of Jesus" is just around the corner? Would she leave the White House and take Air Force One back to Alaska, her "refuge state" while the rest of America goes to hell? Is that what America's future holds - ultimate betrayal by Christian religious extremists?
Well, I don't know about you, but I am one American who does not want anybody like Sarah Palin anywhere near the White House.
From the Wasilla Bible Church website: "By God’s grace everything in the life of this church will revolve around the reality of Jesus Christ – who He is, what He has done, what He is doing, and what He will do. In the words of the early Church “He is Lord” and will be recognized as such in this church with an absolute allegiance that lifts Him above all others in our hearts, in our homes, and in our congregation. It is His commands that we will obey, His warnings that we will heed, and His promises that we will hold. In every endeavor we will rely upon His power, cherish His presence, and honor His name. We will, in sum, love Him. (John 14:6)."
Jews, Buddhists, Catholics, Unitarians, Hindus, Muslims and people who do not incorporate religion in their lives - all these people - are (according to the Wasilla Bible Church) blind as bats. Do we really want a vice-president who thinks everyone who doesn't worship Jesus is wrong, sinful and blind?
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16 comments:
"The Wasilla Bible Church believes in the centrality of Christ."
Nothing scary here. In fact, I think she's even more grounded now.
Why are you hating on Christians? I read the Jews for Jesus speech that a visitor to her church gave. There was nothing hateful in it.
Christians, like the idiot who posted the comment above, have such a sense of self-entitlement that they regularly insult Jews, Buddhists, Native Americans, Muslims, Taoists, Sikhs, Hindus and many others. They fail to understand that the United States is NOT a Christian country and Jesus is NOT the head of state. Palin is a leftover from old Puritan thinking. Hopefully, given another twenty or thirty years, those backwards-thinking Americans will slowly pass from the American landscape - and not a second too soon!
It is not close-minded or insulting to believe that religions other than your own are incorrect. It is simply sincere. If you claim to be an adherent to religion X, but don't think religion Y is wrong, then you are a liar, because you don't really believe religion X at all.
You also wrote that Christians like Palin believe "Everyone else... is sinful..." Yes, that's true. In fact, Christians believe that EVERYONE (not just "everyone else") is sinful, except for Christ, himself. A Christian church is not a club for sinless saints, it is a hospital for the healing of sinners. When a Christian refers to something that someone does as sinful, do not mistake that for self-righteousness (which, BTW, is also sinful). One of the marks of Christian faith is an increasing awareness of how far we, ourselves, fall short of sinlessness. When we allow our Lord to do a good work in our hearts, we become less sinful, but any Christian would tell you that we all remain sinners.
The center of the Christian faith is Christ: who He is, what He did & does, and how He relates to mere mortals. The very first thing you need to know about Him is that He loves you. He loves you and wants a relationship with you regardless of whether or not you are a Christian already. There are costs to following Christ (witness the torrent of vicious, religiously-motivated attacks on Sarah Palen and her family!), but the rewards are immeasurably greater that those costs.
You also seem troubled that Christians like Palin endeavor to obey Christ, first and foremost, as if you think that is in conflict with a leader's duty to his or her country & countrymen. But it isn't. Christ's commands are not burdensome or in conflict with our nation's best interests. Because we know that He loves us, we can have confidence that His instructions are for our own good, and a leader who follows them will do a better job of leading his country than one who does not.
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Footnote: You wrote that "Palin is a leftover from old Puritan thinking." That is ironic, because Palin isn't the candidate whose church is leftover from the Puritans.
Do you know much about Obama's church? It is a member of a denomination called the United Church of Christ, which used to be called the Congregational Church, which used to be... the Puritans.
Strange, but true.
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Footnote #2: Your list of those whom you think "idiots" (Christians) "regularly insult" is slightly odd: "Jews, Buddhists, Native Americans, Muslims, Taoists, Sikhs, Hindus and many others." What are "native Americans" doing in that list? That's an ethnic group, not a religion. Many native Americans (including Sarah Palin's 50% native American husband) are Christians, and they certainly are not insulted by someone asserting their belief that Christ is the way of salvation.
Perhaps if someone called them "idiots" they might be insulted, though.
Dave
People who are indigenous to North America do not define our religion separate from our ethnicity. Dave, in his Footnote #2, seems to be unaware of that. Also, Dave ends his second footnote by asserting that many Native Americans are not insulted by others asserting that Christ is the way of salvation. True. Yet, there are other Native Americans (as well as people of other religions and people who practice no religion at all) who are indeed insulted when Christians suggest that Christ is the "only" way to salvation.
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However, this story was about Christians being so arrogant as to think they should go out a "save" Jews by "bringing them to Christ". That is not only insulting, but it is also rude, arrogant and thoughtless.
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Keep your Bible Bullshit to yourself!
Who in hell is Dave Burton? He sounds like a right-wing Christian Republican. I guess he doesn't get the point. Much of the world doesn't accept that Jesus Christ is any more real than Mickey Mouse. All Dave's arguments about what and who Jesus was (incidentally, Dave, it's past tense. There is no Jesus Christ today regardless of what you and your fellow Bible thumpers wish was real. In fact, there is little evidence that an historical Jesus character ever lived at all) are based on the premise that the people Dave is talking to are Christians and believe all that bullshit. Dave doesn't realize that there is a great big world outside of Wasilla, Alaska. Not everybody on the planet is a Christian, Dave - in fact - most of the world is not. Listen, Dave, why don't you go preach your crap to someone who likes listening to fairy tales. The rest of us are busy dealing with reality.
Check out the link Dave Burton provides. He's from Cary, North Carolina. That's right in the middle of Born Again Bible Country. Just leave good old Dave alone and maybe he'll go find a right-winger website he likes better.
Hey, Dave Burton of Burton Systems Software in Cary, North Carolina: You wrote "You also seem troubled that Christians like Palin endeavor to obey Christ, first and foremost, as if you think that is in conflict with a leader's duty to his or her country & countrymen." So ... You're damn right I do, Dave. I don't want a possible President Sarah Palin listening to spook voices in her head that she thinks are coming to her direct from God. I don't want her obeying what her pastor interprets to be the Word of God. I don't want her trying to fit 21st century problems into a set of instructions written more than 2,000 years ago for entirely differnet purposes. In fact, I don't want Sarah Palin or any other crazy Born Again nut case anywhere near the White House. George Bush claims to be a Palin-caliber Christian and look what kind of destruction and death he has brought upon the world. There is only one voice for any American President to listen to and that is the voice of the American people.None of us in this country are God and not all of us are Christians. I wonder if Palin believes in separation of church and state. You sure don't seem to get the point, Dave. Palin may be a dense as you are.
The point of this op-ed, I thought, was encapsulated in the title: a complaint about an alleged insult to someone's religion. So why are you folks so free with insults directed at Christianity?
Is it okay to insult one religion, and not another?
Listen to yourselves: Jesus Christ compared to Mickey Mouse, "Bible Bullshit," "go preach your crap to someone who likes listening to fairy tales," "Bible thumpers," "spook voices in her head," "dense as you are," "crazy Born Again nut case."
What would you think if a Christian referred to "Torah bullshit" or "Koran bullshit?" Would you be insulted or offended?
Recall: "Man who lives in glass house should not throw stones." (Or, for us "crazy born-again nut cases," http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat%207:3 )
Dave
Dave Burton wrote: "What would you think if a Christian referred to "Torah bullshit" or "Koran bullshit?" Would you be insulted or offended?" Answer: Jews and Muslim Americans do not try to convert Christian Americans. Jews and Muslims in America do not try to force the Torah and/or the Koran on American society as THE ONLY model for behavior, ethics and morality. Jews and Muslim Americans do not believe our/their holy books are the appropriate guides for the United States government. Jewish and Muslim Americans believe in separation of church and state, just as the Constitution requires.
Christians in other parts of the world and Christians from the two or three major, original and primary denominations do not behave in the offensive aggressive and manipulative way many members of other American-based Christian denominations do. The Pentecostals and Assemblies of God are particularly notorious for that type of offensive behavior.
So, Dave, in answer to your question, if Jewish and Muslim Americans behaved similarly, they should expect people to tell us/them to keep our/their religious bullshit to ourselves/themselves. But the fact is, Dave, the only kids in the playpen who are acting like outright assholes are the Born Again Christians - and they definitely need to keep their Bible Bullshit to themselves!
Remember Dave, Presidents and Vice-Presidents of the United States do not put their hands on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible. They put their hands on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States. The great book of our society and the great book of America is NOT the Bible. It is the Constitution. The United States is NOT a religious country. The United States is NOT a Christian country. It is OUR country - - - and "OUR" - - - refers to all of us, not just the goddam Bible banging buttheads of this country.
OK, everybody. This is certainly a subject about which everyone has fired-up viewpoints - and I respect that - however, this string of comments is beginning to develop a life of its own. It may be better to continue the debate on some other battleground. For those who wish to continue the conversation with Dave Burton you may reach him via email at (www.burtonsys.com) of Cary, North Carolina. This blog, Sam Spade's San Francisco, generally deals with issues that are more of interest to San Franciscans and left-coast kind of thinkers.
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson
Samuel Adams, First Chief Justice John Jay
Names synonymous with the spirit of our country
Founding fathers of the U.S.A.
Over 200 years ago they shook off the chains of tyranny from Great Britain By divine call
Citing 27 biblical violations they wrote the Declaration of Independence
With liberty and justice for all
But something happened since Jefferson called the Bible the cornerstone
For American liberty then put it in our schools as a light
Or since "Give me liberty or give me death", Patrick Henry said
Our country was founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ
We eliminated God from the equation of American life
Thus eliminating the reason this nation first began
From beyond the grave I hear the voices of our founding fathers plead
You need God in America again
Of the 55 men who formed the Constitution
Fifty-two were active members of their church
Founding fathers like Noah Webster who wrote the first dictionary
Could literally quote the Bible chapter and verse
James Madison said, "We've staked our future on our ability to fallow
The Ten Commandments with all our heart"
These men believed you couldn't even call yourself an American
If you subvert the Word of God
In his farewell address, Washington said, "You can't have
National morality apart from religious principle," and it's true
'Cause right now we have nearly 150,000 kids carrying guns
To these war zones we call public schools
Corrections/clarifications...
"Anonymous #2" should be "Anonymous #3."
Also, my response beginning "Your anti-Christian bigotry..." is intended to be a reply to both Thomas and Anonymnous #2, not just to Thomas, since both were deliberately insulting to Christians.
Dave
OK, Dave ... please pay careful attention. I've already made it clear that this string is getting a little off topic. You're becoming a bore. You are slipping off into religious argumentation. That's just far too boring. Sorry your ego was bruised but please go cry elsewhere. You're done here, pal.
For Obama to reach where he is, it took a lot of poise. McCain married money, and came back with war honors (but McCain is also white, a lot of minority vets couldn't move to AZ and be elected Senator by marrying a connected and rich wife). Palin is a trophy politician -- if she was a man, people would laugh at her experience (yes, she is the Gov of Alaska now, but she was a beauty queen and party-girl before). Politics and Religion is a bad mix: And What's funny is that Christianity is a 'middle eastern' religion, that is so far removed from the time, place, and (perhaps) the true intent behind its establishment in the first place. If you want to be Godly, trade your guns and pickup truck for some sandles and donkey and wander the desert preaching the word of the Lord. And while you're out there, remember that Christianity, like Obama's middle name, is of middle eastern origin. I don't think there were a lot of white guys named Chad and Tod with 401k plans in the Bible.
I agree with you on that one. If marry a Jew and you will understand a lot more about being a Christian. I have learned what many Christians and Jews have not forgoten War on religion is War on a country. Our Constitutions being changed across the States of the USA is an example of changing the way the Constitution was written. Oh yes and by the way Sarah Palin might be a little bit conservitive but she does not strike me as a " Dave Burton,President Washington,Samuel Adams,or anyone else." She is her own person in history like the rest of us. So look upon a glass house and throw eggs. Please for the sake of the people inside do not throw rocks...lollolandlol
I'm not a Christian. I'm not an democrat. I'm not a republican. I refuse to put myself in any of your silly boxes (Left or Right) Just someone that is objective enough to follow my own convictions. all of you belong to one group or another because you are too scared and insecure to be alone in your views. I liken this to gang mentality. It is so much safer and easier when everyone agrees with you. I see it in every blog I visit. One uniformly minded group of sheep blog each other into a fervor and when a dissenter comes into the safe haven, those like minded bloggers attack at once before their beliefs are challenged....From an outside perspective, maybe all of you are not so secure in your beliefs. Pretty defensive aren't you all. I don't believe in Jesus....but being offended by a message of love and peace. I'm not following. Please advise. If the teachings of Jesus scare you, maybe you would prefer the teaching of Hitler.
-An honest atheist
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